| Magento Sucks! |
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Page 3 of 3 Simply one of the worst e-commerce platforms on the market today!...but disguised as one of the best. In this article we'll dive into the platform and really explain why we feel its not worth your time at all! I'll keep this article short and sweet. People are going to disagree, but only because they haven't really done their research. I don't think anyone who has truly spent a good amount of time working on the Magento platform will disagree with me. We may have different opinions, but the facts are the same. This e-commerce platform sucks out loud and I'm done with it. Along with that, it is my opinion that you should not waste your time with it. It is a trap that was built to pull you into needing support and paying the developers for to come to your rescue. There is no other reason to build a system that is so complex and fails to work 80-90% of the time from installs to upgrades. Trust me, I'm just like you. When I saw Magento for the first time I was REALLY excited. E-commerce is what I do. Its what pays the bills for me, and aside from that its my passion, I love working in this industry. I've worked with pretty much every shopping cart on the market from APS.net to PHP, I've tried them all and Magento looks better than any of them from the outside. But wow, does the old saying "can't judge a book by its cover" hold true here! As I mentioned before, I'm not going to drag this out into a huge review, that will come later, right now I'm just trying to save you some time and frustration. Though this may seem like the dream product it really is just the biggest headache you've ever had waiting to happen. Do not use this software if you need a website to be stable. DO NOT use this shopping cart if you want features and fucntionality that are production ready, DO NOT use this software if you ever plan to upgrade the system. I'm not just trying to be mean, take a look at the forums on the Magento website, they are litterally filled with people who are at a deadlock and can't get their store's up and running due to an upgrade or bug or any other reason.You'll also want to note that there is NO ONE from the Magento team there to offer help to the new comers. this is beacause the Magento team charges for support. That is their only business model to be exact. This means Varien (the makers of the software) only get paid when people need help. I'm not suprised that the system is so complex now....it makes perfect sense. Make product that is beautiful from the outside, but make it so complex that people are going to HAVE to have support in order to get things working enough to support a production e-commerce enviroment. -------Updated---------- I posted the article above a long time ago. I had just lost pretty much entire 2 weeks worth of work because I tried upgrading my version of magento to the latest stable release. Needless to say....I was bitter and just plain pisses off. So how have things changed now? I've had the time to rebuild everything I lost durring that first upgrade, and I've pushed the system onto a production website! It wasn't easy. I had to make tons of little fixes along the way. The permission issues with the file system is unacceptable, but since it exists in every update I assume the Magento team is ok with it or they would have fixed the issue by now. So now All the little fixes aside, like I said I pushed the site built on Magento into production.....and then another upgrade came down the line. At first I said to myself "No way, just keep using what your on. Don't risk it man...don't risk it". Well all the bugfixes and improved functionality got the best of me. I used SimpleScripts to upgrade my version (I us SS because I was told by the Magento team that most upgrade issues are caused by the users...way to blame the problems on everyelse guys). Plus Simple Scripts not only upgrades the software, but automatically makes a backup of the current version first in case of issues....this is Magento...there will of course be issues. So after I get the "Upgrade Complete" message from Simple Scripts I blast over to my site to see the new version running live (The site, although live wasn't being advertised at the time). So what do I see when I bring up the upgraded site? Of course I see errors! I really can't believe I expected to see anything else. I look into the issue, can't really find a problem, so I hit the Magneto forums.....but as I mentioned before, the forums are just for the community, you can expect no assistance from the team on any issues. Man are there issues, there are at least a have dozen threads, each with tons of replies complaining about how the upgrade broke their sites. Pretty much everyone is having similar issues. The entire site is either down, or the administration section of magento isn't in a usable state. You would think that with this sort of public outcry the develpment team would step in and make everything right with a quick fix right? Not going to happen. The Magento team rarely posts anything on the support section of the forums. The only realy help to be found is what the other users have been able to hack together and get working. In my opinion this is a direct reflection of the fact that Varien charges for support. This is why they are slow to fix problems, this is why the system is so complex. They want to make you feel like you need help. I'd love to say things turned out well for me and my Magento install, but truth be told I ened up trashing it and going with a different platform. A year ago I had an unlimited amount of hope for this product. But today I can say that I know what failure looks like, for I have used Magento.  Quote this article on your site
61. 19-06-2010 04:04 I am just stating fact that if you get some one who knows what they are doing, then you should not really have any problems with magento, sure you will have some initial teething problems as you will with any site before it goes into production 62. 19-06-2010 04:15 Zach, I hate to break it to you, but you're accepting the Spruce Goose of e-commerce packages as some sort of workable solution. It has 449,000+ lines of PHP, which puts it at risk of collapsing under its own weight. Just put that aside and look at the database. A 9 page schema if you print it out on paper. Then, how about that templating framework... It's insane, and its the result of having too many cooks in the kitchen at Varien. Having attempted to participate in the beta, I quickly realized how non-involved Varien was in working with the eager open source community to help them make it great. I even had it out with Roy Rubin, CEO of Varien over chat more than once and warned him it would burn them in the long run, but since their motivations were never to support adoption in the open source community, it didn't matter. They ended up with the monstrosity that is their overpriced mid and enterprise tier offerings, that have a sorry excuse for a CMS attached as an afterthought, and just try and work with the insane, overly obfuscated code base.... its a nightmare. 63. 19-06-2010 04:29 Thanks Fred appreciate your advice 64. 19-06-2010 04:37 Zach, I mean, I can hire a really experienced driver and pay him by the hour to take me from NY to LA in a 1986 on the back of my moped. However, it would be much faster, cheaper, and comfortable to pay him by the hour to take me in my luxury car. I'm not going to blame my carpenters for taking too long to frame a house if I give them rocks to pound nails in. The point is, any programmer, from the novice to the expert, will improve in efficiency with the right tools. Jim 65. 19-06-2010 04:49 Zachary, Sorry I was a little harsh. If you're frustrated. There are alternatives out there. Just glance at Magento's "Compare Editions" page: http://www.magentocommerce.com/product/compare Just about everything that listed as being available only in the enterprise version can be accomplished with Drupal + Ubercart. I know from experience. Here's a story- I was going to move a client of ours from our in-house e-commerce system to Magento and give them a nice new redesign and international ordering. It was a good client, one that does a minimum of $250,000 in US sales every single month. I had the site all skinned and customized. I had all of the content moved over from the other site. It was very time consuming. I had a few sample products into the site. The client was very pleased with the work thus far. It seemed to look great. On the outside it was, but I knew of the gremlins that may be encountered. Then, it came time to import the >600,000 of products. There was no way. Even simple products without photos. I spent much time tweaking the servers MySQL and Apache settings for performance. I upgraded the server. I used a faster command line import script originally written by amartinez (thanks A!). He really did a great job! I further customized and trimmed down the script to be as fast as the API and database structure would allow. I had it running in a cron job to restart where it left off. It was taking days, and would be too complex to ever have our client do by himself. By comparison, our in-house e-commerce package previously allowed our client to do this himself in minutes. The client would frequently export new price catalogs from his local inventory database and them import them to his on-line storefront. Trust me, I tried for a long time to make Magento work for me. I didn't want to abandon the months already spent on this project. No way! Especially since both the client and I thought we were in the "finishing touches" stage. I reached a dead end. The import wouldn't work. Additionally, the client wanted event calendars, a CMS system, and more features that I couldn't do with Magento. I didn't want to add a blog, then add an events calendar, etc... to have a bunch of isolated software packages running on one site. I needed everything to interact. Products, events, news feeds, blogs, newsletter subscriptions, user logins and the rest cannot be scattered throughout several isolated systems. I ended up rebuilding the site with Drupal + Ubercart in a WEEK, complete with import scripts that are smart enough run in con and recognize that new lines had been appended to the CSV. The client just has to upload it, the rest is magic. What was I left with? I was left with a fully functional e-commerce system AND content management system. I easily configured their event calendars, photo galleries, and much more all within the Drupal system. It literally took one week. What's even more promising? Ubercart's lead developers began a new package called Drupal Commerce for Drupal 7. It is a full-up rewrite, taking advantage of everything D7 has to offer. http://vimeo.com/11425816 One thing you will see that is different about Magento from any other open source projects is the community. While the Magento module developers and users are great, the Varien developers are only helpful if you have an enterprise account. In other projects, you see everyone working as a team. Patches from users are reviewed, accepted, and applied quickly. Users are less frustrated because those with enough knowledge CAN help others by fixing bugs. Those with less knowledge, can then upgrade a single package to the patched version to fix their bug. With Magento, someone can give supply a patch deep inside page 35 of a forum, but it is up to you to find it, review it youself, and patch your installation. As time allows, I'll be moving all of my sites from Magento. I'm excited to try Satchmo very soon, which is build using the Django CMS written in Python. It may not have all of the bells and whistles yet, but the core is very solid and fast. The MVC architecture is superior to that of most open source e-commerce systems. Best of luck to you. Jim 66. 19-06-2010 05:04 One more thing, while reviewing the Magento Editions comparison page. I see that Apache Solr intergration is available in the Enterprise version only. It is not even availabe in the Professional version. With almost any e-comm / cms system you use, you'll want this if you plan on having a few hundred thousand products. You'll want an Apache Solr server running on a different host. This is available in Drupal + Ubercart. It is also available in Django, and an implementation is being written for Satchmo. For Magento, this is listed in the "Modules Wanted" section, but there are no takers. Which means, Magento isn't a viable choice for such a large site, unless you want to spend the now $12,990.00 / year enterprise fee, or spend as much on dedicated enterprise hardware to compensate. 67. 19-06-2010 05:05 Jim, I'd like to talk to you about the Isotope e-commerce platform, built in the context of the Contao (formerly known as TYPOlight) CMS. I'm the co-inventor of it. There are no commercial versions now or ever planned, and it is currently in live beta and as such is being used to run sites. It is very lightweight (~124k lines of code, only 21k of those are ecommerce related) and is a comletely flexible toolset upon which you can tailor to fit the needs of your customer. We're magento refugees too! This week we had a firm in NYC contact us via email to check on the status of the project because they are completely frustrated with Drupal + Ubercart and have been following our progresss for a while. Most of their clients are Fortune 100 size businesses, and even though we never intended to serve that level of client (we've been solely focused on being profitable on small and mid size projects), I'd say it's worth considering if you too use Drupal & Ubercart. If you want, contact me (email included in the comment) and I'm happy to explain more Best, 68. 19-06-2010 06:18 iSpark, Fred had contacted me regarding Isotope. I plan on setting it up around the same time that I test drive Satchmo. A few days ago I viewed the on-line demo. However, it was only the customer experience. I'd like to install it, test it, and try to extend it in the near future. Do you think you'd get more newcomers with a demo login to test-drive the admin? Fred, I agree the codebase is a mess in Magento. * Packages extending packages extending packages that are scattered throughout the installation. * XML files with elements that instruct the handler to call methods to load templates stored elsewhere as .phtml files just for the sake of loading a demo store banner in the sidebar? * Default e-mail templates that don't even have a consistent pattern for the sample data such as phone numbers, web/e-mail addresses, company names, etc... Say good-bye to the chance of using command line tools like sed, perl, or replace to quickly customize the templates. I mean, couldn't these simply be variables defined in the store admin? There are already placeholders for Site Name, Store E-mail Address, etc... That's what I ended up using for my templates. I still can't decide whether the obfuscation was intentional or not. I'm not sure you can judge the database based on the number of pages it would take to print the schema. As I see it, one of the major problems is the that the tables are not "wide" enough. If you look at another customer database, such as an a ISP billing package, you may see tables such as customer, contact, address, phone, etc... with relationships to one another, or in some cases a linking table for data that can be parented by more than one table. However, in one of the tables, there exists a specific column in which to store a first name, a phone number, a street address, etc... However, in Magento, data representing many of these attributes is stored in a single table column. For example, here are a few rows from the table: "customer_address_entity_varchar" --------------------------------------- 784, 2, 17, 88, John 785, 2, 19, 88, Doe 786, 2, 21, 88, Widgets Pty. Ltd. 787, 2, 23, 88, Beverly Hills 788, 2, 25, 88, California 789, 2, 27, 88, 90210 790, 2, 24, 88, US 791, 2, 28, 88, 555-555-5555 792, 2, 29, 88, --------------------------------------- This EAV model is just neither appropriate or scalable for this type of data. Trivial key/value attributes of an object can be stored like this. It is just plain lazy to store all of your data like this, as Magento has done. I really like the empty one ( ID 792 ). Since when is it more efficient to store an empty string, rather than inserting/returning 0 rows, or even a null value? This tells me that the database designers did not have a clear idea of what they were going to be storing. These generic containers were built, because no one took the time to figure out what types of objects need to be represented and stored prior to hacking the table layouts, let alone deciding how often each column may be inserted, queried, sorted, etc... Jim 69. 21-06-2010 21:55 I am not a programmer. I am a web designer. I have installed the latest version of Magento (1.4.1 as of this writing). The installation was flawless. It looked beautiful in the backend. I purchased their manual. Half way into reading their manual I am stuck. I can not change descriptions after a product has been saved. I can not add a label to an image without that label changing the name of the product to the label or the image location. I can not assign an image as a Base image. I can not duplicate a product without getting an SQL error. None of these issues on my end are server related or file permission related. It is the software. I have read through most of these posts and I find some people that are programmers saying that it is the end user and you need to be a programmer and you need to have a programmer do the modifications for you. I agree with the latter part if you want to do mods. HOWEVER, the core of any software should work. No ecommerce software open source or paid should not allow an end user to modify descriptions, give an image an alt description, change a product name without request. This is core functionality that does not work. When you visit the forums, many on here are right, there are people asking for help on the simple things like what I just mentioned. For the most part there is no answer. The forum structure is hideous. It is only partially organized. For one of their software to cost over $12K USD you would think they would invest in a better forum for their free software. It would help them the find the answers of some programmers that freely fix their bugs. At this stage I have invested about 3 weeks into this software and this book and I am really on the fence as to whether or not I should continue. I have requested help on their forum but no one has answered. The programmer I work with will look into it but do I really want to waste their time on something that seems to not have simple things to work "out of the box"? It scares me to know what may come when modifications are needed. I've used ZenCart in the past. It looks archaic but it works. It doesn't have the sleek look of Magento but again it works. You can create a template that is sleek but in order for it to work you really need to hack the code using their overrides system. I am not interested in using OSCommerce or anything attached to a CMS (Ubercart or Virtuemart). My client needs and open source software because they are a very small business starting out and have low finances. Does anyone have any recommendations? I really thing I should scrap Magento for ZenCart and hack away. 70. 21-06-2010 22:09 Cubbie, Your programmer may be the best person to consult with regarding that question. You will probably be better off using whatever software he or she is the most comfortable with. That being said, if you provide your Magento forum screen name, we may be able to check your posts and help with the problem on the Magento Forum itself. It is really better to answer programming questions there, in hopes that it will help other users who encounter the same problem. At one time I was very active in answering questions on the forum and contributing to Wiki articles. However, the ratio of askers to answerers lack of communication from Varien made this seem like a futile task. I'm curious, did your programmer recommend Magento, or did you push for it? Jim 71. 21-06-2010 22:56 Hi Cubbie, We've been working with opencart for a few weeks and find it to be outstanding. Open source, super clean code, clearly understood and quite powerful. Will be moving everything away from Magento over the next few months. Best! 72. 21-06-2010 23:00 Sorry gave the wrong website link on the last post... 73. 22-06-2010 04:59 @Jim I can't say that I "pushed" for Magento. We work on projects together and I recommend software based upon client wants, needs and two year functionality for expansion. So basically, whatever software I select is the one he will hack for modification. He is ultra flexible and ultra patient. I am not patient and not so flexible. So we make a good team. I liked the sleek look of Magento. I liked also the out of box features that were core and not add ons or hacks like the wish list feature. That is to name just one feature. So when I said, "magento" he said, "sure". After my first comment here I played around with the backend demo of Prestashop and was impressed with the developer "live stores". I couldn't' find any user stores that seemed "real". Maybe I didn't look hard enough. The backend really turned me off. It looks very unprofessional and childlike. I don't know if I can get past that. I think now I may go back to ZenCart because we know it and it will be a quick set up. I will email you my user name on the forum. No one has responded to my post. I told my programmer not to spend time on it because I'm terrified that there are core problems and I'm scared to go further. @Rob My programmer looked at Open Cart tonight and wasn't impressed with it in comparison to ZenCart. I also came across one website where two people commented on the Open Cart forum vibe. They said it was not very friendly. One commented that the programmer called him an idiot. I don't know if that is true. I did visit the forum and I did notice some very smart quips that I personally felt were unprofessional. As I mentioned before, I don't have patience and I can't tolerate that especially if I'm already frustrated. I know me and I know that my frustration and a smart @ss comment to my cry for help when me and my programmer are stumped will not work well together. 74. 22-06-2010 05:01 @Jim I just realized you didn't post your email so I can't email you my user name on the forum. 75. 22-06-2010 09:26 @Cubbie. I'm a bit surprised that your programmer prefers Zencart to Opencart but it might be a question of famailiarity with Zencart. Our detour to Magento started out of frustration with Zencart, personally I find Opencart a far superior solution to Zencart but clearly both will produce a functional e-commerce site so it is somewhat of a personal choice. I would argue that the two carts are based on a similar database structure, Opencart is just MUCH cleaner and better implemented. You are correct about the forum in some ways. I've asked some relatively dumb questions and received helpful input. However, the main programmer (I think Daniel) appears to be a very "testy" guy with some pretty "sharp" editorial commenting! I wouldn't take it personally, they're from the UK so its kind of like being in front of Simon on American Idol (LOL). Just your stereotypical smart tech guy with sub-par social skills. I wouldn't write off a good product just for that! In any case, whatever you decide on I think running as fast and as far away from Magento is a good start! 76. 22-06-2010 19:37 @Rob I installed Prestashop yesterday and got caught in step 3 of the 4 step install process. The screen just hung there. After opening another tab to go to the webpage I realized Prestashop installed without a confirmation. There was no employee (admin login). I added one based on a forum post (for an older version) and to make a long story short... it didn't work. Again that scared me. This is a known issue (according to the forum) that hasn't been fixed in their latest and greatest, stable version. I bolted, deleted the software and uploaded Zen Cart's latest version. I have yet to install it. I may based on your recommendation (and having time to kill) download and install OpenCart to look at it. ZenCart is really my last resort. You know XCart on one blog got good reviews (their $115 version). 77. 22-06-2010 19:54 Cubbie, I sent you an e-mail last night. So, you should have my address as long as your e-mail on here is valid. My e-mail address is also in the first comment I made on this blog entry, back on page 2. Jim 78. 23-06-2010 06:55 Upgraded from from virtuamart to Magento; Lessons learned: 1. Had to triple to the hardware to have load time less than 10sec per page. Joomla virtuamart run fast on on a single core zeon with 4Gb of ram, Now I run on dual quad cores with 16Gb of ram and max out cpu / disk io at each newsletter send. 2. Virtuamart was not perfect - but once it was fixed it run with no admin / coding for months at a end. Magento keeps on crashing out of the blue, with random error messages which are hard to reproduce. 3. No easy upgrades - expect to spend many late nights fixing failed upgrade scripts and restoring database dumps. 4. Magento has a lots of cool features, but they come at a price, we lost nearly 30% in sales after [upgrading] to Magento. In the end, its the number of sales not the amount of widgets that keeps you going. If you like to tinker with php and xml and / or have the money to sign up for Enterprise, Magento comes highly recommend. If you would like to have something stable / fast / reliable; Magento is not for you. 79. 23-06-2010 12:11 Cubbie, I actually got hooked on Opencart after just setting it up as a test. I saw that you can get shared hosting for $4/month (there's a link on their site) and they'll install it for free. Actually got a special from Siteground for $24/year (yes year). OK - it's shared hosting so it won't do once you get traffic but for $4 you get a working version setup essentially immediately and a month to play with it...If it works you can just backup and move it to any host you want. 80. 23-06-2010 19:28 @ Rob I played around with the OpenCart demo. I read the forums more and looked at their extensions. I didn\'t install it on our server. I was unable to find some key features I want (free or paid) which are wish list, rewards and emailing customers based on purchase amount with a coupon. I could have over looked and missed it. I agree that OpenCart is much cleaner in comparison to ZenCart. That I do like. I ended up installing ZenCart on the server this morning. @NoMagento Excellent assessment. I wish I had found this posting before I wasted my time with Magento Community. @Jim. I don\'t know why I didn\'t get your email. I\'ve since uninstalled Magento and do not plan on using it. The only response I received on the board was on person saying they have the exact issues. So, I think it is best to steer clear of it. Thank you so much for your offer to help me. 81. 10-07-2010 19:03 For the record, I have been a systems administrator for the last 10 years, and about 4 years as a PHP programmer, and have worked for a billion dollar per year e-tailer. After fighting with Magento for the last month and a half, I decided to do what is right, and warn others not to use this shopping cart - if you only read this far, I have done my job. As the article stated, this cart seems ok from 30k feet, but it really is a "pig in a pretty dress". They claim this cart can scale, although, it seems as though it's easier to modify OSC or Zen to allow things to be cached. Also, using SSL offloading to the secure pages was a major fail, as I guess magento's "magic Turn SSL on Frontend" is broken, and results in a re-direct loop that I have tried about 20 different fixes for...and none of them worked. At the end of the day, we made so many mods to this cart, that we can no longer update the software, or allow anyone else to work on it, as it has way too many hacks in place to make it run. As the poster said, the fixes for these issues must be kept in a vault at Magento HQ....but if they want their software to be hard to use, and unable to fix, with developers on their forum saying "your on your own"...then that leads to assume they don't genuinely care about the user base of their product. Bad support and bad code = waste of your time The way I see it, if the cart has no community support to fix issues that are common, why would you use Magento? Alternatives to Magento: Zen Cart OsCommerce Thanks! 82. 20-07-2010 03:09 I have been a php programmer for a little over three years and have built many websites. Magento is a POS to be nice. Everything about it is terrible. I am a very experienced programmer, and i wouldnt wish this plague on my worst enemy. PLEASE PLEASE Dont waste your time. Even if you do end up with a final product, the page load times will ruin your accomplishment. Pros: I am to angry to mention any. Cons: To update magento is a nightmare (even with 1.40 to 1.41. Dont even try. The amount of files required for just your theme are larger than most CMS's. The layouts for themes are disgusting. (php to xml to php?? - i think?? - does Varien even know?) I think snails move faster. BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS PLEASE DONT USE MAGENTO 83. 20-07-2010 03:35 I must say more. I am currently a little over two months into a Magento site for a client and i am getting past the deadline. The site is 85% complete and is a heaping mound of crap. When it comes to coding i am a perfectionist and i have never produced a bad product for a client - this is not the case anymore. Even at 85% completed and past my deadline, i am still thinking about using an alternative. Heres some food for thought: count how many times you notice Magento's site down in any given week. Honestly, try it for yourself. You are desperately in need of docs, NOPE the site is down! Hmmm... ill use the forums NOPE the site is down! 84. 20-07-2010 05:37 Matt, I hear you buddy. For me, I once pulled an all nighter on an upgrade, deciphering and sorting out the dreaded database. If you want to get in contact with me, I have an alternative tool you might want to check out. Its open source, and is built in the context of a CMS so we get the benefits of both great content management but also an awesome framework. Hit me up, I'll let you know more. The site doesn't do it justice - i actually do personal walkthroughs right now to discuss the approach and concepts behind it. As a comparison, Magento is over 449,000 lines of *just* PHP (incl. the zend framework) and ours, with CMS, is just over 124k last time I checked, though we're adding continually. only about 21k of that is our code. The rest is the magic that is the framework. Anyway, hope to hear from you. Best of luck with that clusterfuck! :D 85. 20-07-2010 05:40 PS Matt.... our early beta projects cut development time by 40-50%, and only because we had to code more in early phases. The thing is, you can tailor exactly to your clients needs in less time than any other alternative, mainly because as developers we also need just tools, with the most common feature set, and the ability to extend quickly and reliably. Thought I would just throw that out there. 86. 21-07-2010 23:23 Good to read you all guys. I've been a PHP, Java, ROR (and event .net) programmer for over 10 years. I've worked with several Open source or paid solutions. I started using magento last month and was very impressed... at the beginning. Then I first tried to customize the home page. The nightmare began. ... No need to repeat what has been said previously. But it's so good to share. I thought i was the only (experimented) idiot on earth who can't deal with Magento Philosophy. 87. 03-08-2010 00:33 Fred, I checked out isotope and it looks very promising. Next time I get tricked into an e-commerce site, ill check it out. However, I think magento has burned me so bad - the thought of e-anything makes my head hurt. PS. STILL working on the magento fun run. 88. 03-08-2010 02:54 Hi Matt, Glad you think so, even if I don't think the homepage comes close to driving the point home - due to lack of time & resource at the moment to spend on that end of it. The offer still stands for you to contact me directly when you're ready. Best of luck to you with the Magento-coaster. XD 89. 03-08-2010 21:22 If anyone is not convinced that the magento team ignores the comunity, have a look @ this 26 page thread http://www.magentocommerce.com/boards/viewthread/1680/ . Since November of 2007 people have been trying to delete orders. Some people want to delete the test orders, some just want the ability to remove individual ones from the system. One would think in all the releases since 2007 there might have been a place to add this functionality. Sad thing is that this system that keeps getting features added still can't delete orders and users are running sql statements in the backend to get rid of test data. What a F%&*ing joke! Magento is bloated fauxpen source software, that's all that needs to be said. 90. 11-08-2010 16:51 You can create a new Application like Wordpress or Magento using Drupal(Install profile). 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